Yamanoor Srihari
2004-05-15 03:01:28 UTC
Mayil and Sethu, I am quite happy that we are having this discussion. I am quite as shocked as everyone else is. I am copying this group iluIndia-***@public.gmane.org which I wish to dedicate exclusively for such discussions, and request both of you to join the group.
With Jayalalitha, I agree about poor candidate selection and also her arrogance combined with the problems of Rajni and Thirunavukarasu
However, one other point has been ignored, and atleast this time Jaya didnt slip into the mire. The point is casteism. Increasingly we see the Vanniyars forming a belt and similarly, other castes are increasingly playing an ugly role in TN politics. So in spite of good things like teaching the government officers a good lesson, Jaya lost (not withstanding the problems she herself created) because of caste....this will be very very ugly a trend in the future.
In AP, you have to understand the people were naturally tired of CBN. He never even showed interest in the rest of the state, and this was expected. For sometime I worked with an IAS officer who is a fellow here who told me how Naidu is interested only in IT and numbers and how the unscruplous among the beauracracy learnt to fool him by making up numbers. This angered the people a lot and they put him down.
Also, we have been discussing (me and some of my friends, also in the group) that India did undergo a form of false growth, where certain populations and groups, especially the erstwhile middle class is gaining grounds through strong education which puts them higher up in the work force and leaves the poor of India behind, with a much larger gap to share with a much larger group of people. This effect, a big exaggerated has exacerbated the situation and was cause to the loss of the election.
Finally, no one thought they were doing big harm by playing the poker game of anti - incumbency. Sonia Gandhi did not win because Indians think being ruled by foreigners is fine, or because people thought she is great. It is because people made the stupid mistake of not looking at the big picture of things. Now it will appear as if foreign origin is not an issue, which is a very bad perception.
We are in the largest mess that we ever could be, and I always wonder how one man could be so clairvoyant - Mahatma Gandhi...
I know I have not addressed all the issues and we have many more coming as to whether this situation can be fixed at all or not...and we should beat them out one after the other.
Thanks
Srihari
Sethu Raghavan <meetsethu-/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
Quite true Mayil, I discussed this with Hari yesterday
and we agreed that its more the foolishness of the
people who voted.
As you said alliance played a crucial role in all the
states..People normally voted for the local candidate
unmindful of who will become PM. There are some
interesting points to note
1.Almost all of the left parties including DMK,MDMK
opposed Sonia because of her foreign origin. Even
Mulayam didnt not support for the same reason in 1998.
Sharad Pawar created NCP because of that reason. Now
see whats happening..no body has any problem with
that..
2.Already left parties started to oppose the
disinvestment of PSU's which are badly managed.If you
have entered one of the PSU's like BHEL you know how
much it stinks...no wonder that BSE lost Rs.52 Billion
in 2 days ...
3.I really think that the alliance will not lost for 5
years. Its a mis-guided attempt to put a foreigner
into the hot seat with nuclear controls....
I am also really confused and angry with the
masses...certainly as a person who lived in hyderabad
for one year,I would not vote TDP out of
power...Cyberbad will become cypherbad again.
Sethu
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With Jayalalitha, I agree about poor candidate selection and also her arrogance combined with the problems of Rajni and Thirunavukarasu
However, one other point has been ignored, and atleast this time Jaya didnt slip into the mire. The point is casteism. Increasingly we see the Vanniyars forming a belt and similarly, other castes are increasingly playing an ugly role in TN politics. So in spite of good things like teaching the government officers a good lesson, Jaya lost (not withstanding the problems she herself created) because of caste....this will be very very ugly a trend in the future.
In AP, you have to understand the people were naturally tired of CBN. He never even showed interest in the rest of the state, and this was expected. For sometime I worked with an IAS officer who is a fellow here who told me how Naidu is interested only in IT and numbers and how the unscruplous among the beauracracy learnt to fool him by making up numbers. This angered the people a lot and they put him down.
Also, we have been discussing (me and some of my friends, also in the group) that India did undergo a form of false growth, where certain populations and groups, especially the erstwhile middle class is gaining grounds through strong education which puts them higher up in the work force and leaves the poor of India behind, with a much larger gap to share with a much larger group of people. This effect, a big exaggerated has exacerbated the situation and was cause to the loss of the election.
Finally, no one thought they were doing big harm by playing the poker game of anti - incumbency. Sonia Gandhi did not win because Indians think being ruled by foreigners is fine, or because people thought she is great. It is because people made the stupid mistake of not looking at the big picture of things. Now it will appear as if foreign origin is not an issue, which is a very bad perception.
We are in the largest mess that we ever could be, and I always wonder how one man could be so clairvoyant - Mahatma Gandhi...
I know I have not addressed all the issues and we have many more coming as to whether this situation can be fixed at all or not...and we should beat them out one after the other.
Thanks
Srihari
Sethu Raghavan <meetsethu-/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
Quite true Mayil, I discussed this with Hari yesterday
and we agreed that its more the foolishness of the
people who voted.
As you said alliance played a crucial role in all the
states..People normally voted for the local candidate
unmindful of who will become PM. There are some
interesting points to note
1.Almost all of the left parties including DMK,MDMK
opposed Sonia because of her foreign origin. Even
Mulayam didnt not support for the same reason in 1998.
Sharad Pawar created NCP because of that reason. Now
see whats happening..no body has any problem with
that..
2.Already left parties started to oppose the
disinvestment of PSU's which are badly managed.If you
have entered one of the PSU's like BHEL you know how
much it stinks...no wonder that BSE lost Rs.52 Billion
in 2 days ...
3.I really think that the alliance will not lost for 5
years. Its a mis-guided attempt to put a foreigner
into the hot seat with nuclear controls....
I am also really confused and angry with the
masses...certainly as a person who lived in hyderabad
for one year,I would not vote TDP out of
power...Cyberbad will become cypherbad again.
Sethu
Hi Sethu,
I was waiting to discuss with some one but cud
nt
find a person. I wud like to include srihari in the
loop
and learn what his views are too.
You wont believe i was shocked after seeing the
results.
the first shock was that the DMK had swept polls in
TN,
without a single seat for ADMK+. How cud that be
possible?
next huge blow was from Central, that vajpayee had
lost. I
cant come to terms with the fact Vajpayee is going
to be
the Oppn. leader and the worst is some italian maid
is
going to be India's PM. To say the least people
didnt know
what they wud were doing. I am not a fan of Jaya but
i
wanted ADMK+ to win this time due to strong support
for
vajpayee.
Atleast some of the reasons for failure in TN were
1. Ofcourse the strong alliance of the oppn.
2. Poor candidate selection of Jaya. (this is
evident from
the fact that dinakaran lost periyakulam by 22,000
votes
compared to other constituencies were the margins
were
huge)
3. Failure to welcome rajini and thirunavukkarasu in
the
active fold of the party. This is not a major factor
but it
might have made a diff, u never know
Reasons for failure in South and east for BJP were
three
factors
Alliance, alliance and alliance.
It was not a vote for sonia gandhi, not a vote for
vajpayee
but to the regional parties or anti-incumbency
factor. DMK
party as a family party is further emphasized by
Dhayanithi
maran's candidature. Karunanidhi continues to expand
his
family control over the party and nt a good sign.
I am not at all happy with the way things are going,
but
what more can i do?
Jai hind
Jaimv
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/admin/emailfriend?contentId=A25738-2004May13&sent=no&referrer=emailarticleI was waiting to discuss with some one but cud
nt
find a person. I wud like to include srihari in the
loop
and learn what his views are too.
You wont believe i was shocked after seeing the
results.
the first shock was that the DMK had swept polls in
TN,
without a single seat for ADMK+. How cud that be
possible?
next huge blow was from Central, that vajpayee had
lost. I
cant come to terms with the fact Vajpayee is going
to be
the Oppn. leader and the worst is some italian maid
is
going to be India's PM. To say the least people
didnt know
what they wud were doing. I am not a fan of Jaya but
i
wanted ADMK+ to win this time due to strong support
for
vajpayee.
Atleast some of the reasons for failure in TN were
1. Ofcourse the strong alliance of the oppn.
2. Poor candidate selection of Jaya. (this is
evident from
the fact that dinakaran lost periyakulam by 22,000
votes
compared to other constituencies were the margins
were
huge)
3. Failure to welcome rajini and thirunavukkarasu in
the
active fold of the party. This is not a major factor
but it
might have made a diff, u never know
Reasons for failure in South and east for BJP were
three
factors
Alliance, alliance and alliance.
It was not a vote for sonia gandhi, not a vote for
vajpayee
but to the regional parties or anti-incumbency
factor. DMK
party as a family party is further emphasized by
Dhayanithi
maran's candidature. Karunanidhi continues to expand
his
family control over the party and nt a good sign.
I am not at all happy with the way things are going,
but
what more can i do?
Jai hind
Jaimv
You have been sent this message from
as a courtesy of washingtonpost.com
Mayil,
What do you think?.I miss discussing politics
with you.as a courtesy of washingtonpost.com
Mayil,
What do you think?.I miss discussing politics
Sethu
The Upset in India
IN 1998, WHEN Atal Bihari Vajpayee took the
helm ofThe Upset in India
IN 1998, WHEN Atal Bihari Vajpayee took the
the world's largest democracy, nobody predicted
theextent of his success or his alignment with U.S.
interests. His Hindu nationalist party seemed
likely tointerests. His Hindu nationalist party seemed
exacerbate tensions with India's non-Hindu
minorities,inflame relations with Muslim Pakistan and
generallymake India an awkward international partner -- a
prospectthat appeared to come true a few months into Mr.
Vajpayee's tenure, when his government defied the
worldVajpayee's tenure, when his government defied the
by detonating five nuclear bombs. Six years
later,however, Mr. Vajpayee has improved relations with
Pakistan, gone out of his way to forge an alliance
withPakistan, gone out of his way to forge an alliance
the United States and advanced the remarkable
program ofliberalization that has turned India into a star
economy.But if all that was unexpected, so was
yesterday's news.Having called an early election to capitalize on
hisapparently robust popularity, Mr. Vajpayee lost.
Although the reasons for this upset will grow
clearer asAlthough the reasons for this upset will grow
voting data are analyzed, the dominant theory is
notencouraging. Mr. Vajpayee is said to have been
punishedfor the pro-market reforms that fostered India's
high-tech boom; voters in the villages felt left
out andhigh-tech boom; voters in the villages felt left
took their revenge at the ballot box. This
suggests thateven the world's most successful economic
reformers runbig political risks. India conducted poverty
surveys in1993 and '94 and again in 1999 and 2000; over that
period, the rural poverty rate fell from 37
percent to 30period, the rural poverty rate fell from 37
percent, so the idea that the villagers have not
benefited from India's growth is spurious. Given
India'sbenefited from India's growth is spurious. Given
continued boom since 2000, poverty in the villages
hasalmost certainly fallen further. Mr. Vajpayee
apparentlygot no thanks for this.
India will now be governed by a coalition
dominated byIndia will now be governed by a coalition
the Congress Party, the political vehicle of the
Gandhifamily. The current Gandhi is Sonia, the
Italian-bornwidow of the assassinated former prime minister
Rajiv,who was himself the son of the assassinated former
primeminister Indira, who was the daughter of the
former primeminister Jawaharlal Nehru, who led the country for
17years until his peaceful death in office. Mrs.
Gandhiand her colleagues can be expected to pursue her
predecessor's rapprochement with Pakistan; on the
economy, the new rulers are likely to offer less
continuity, though the difference may be partly
rhetorical. Mr. Vajpayee's reforms are too
entrenched topredecessor's rapprochement with Pakistan; on the
economy, the new rulers are likely to offer less
continuity, though the difference may be partly
rhetorical. Mr. Vajpayee's reforms are too
be rolled back, but progress in areas such as the
privatization of lumbering state-run industries
mayprivatization of lumbering state-run industries
decelerate.
The sharpest discontinuity is likely to come in
relations with the United States and possibly with
U.S.The sharpest discontinuity is likely to come in
relations with the United States and possibly with
allies such as Israel. India has become a leading
customer for Israeli weapons technology. With Mr.
Vajpayee in office, the Bush administration hoped
thatcustomer for Israeli weapons technology. With Mr.
Vajpayee in office, the Bush administration hoped
India might be persuaded to send peacekeepers to
Iraq --a remarkable shift from the Cold War, when India
proudlyled the Non-Aligned Movement and seized every
opportunityto tweak American leadership. The Congress
Party-ledcoalition is expected to swing back to traditional
anti-Americanism, sounding off against the United
Statesanti-Americanism, sounding off against the United
at the United Nations and perhaps challenging U.S.
influence in the Middle East by launching its own
peaceinfluence in the Middle East by launching its own
initiative. All of which would test the Bush
administration's reserves of forbearance and tact.
Butadministration's reserves of forbearance and tact.
then again, who knows? India's democracy excels at
defying expert predictions.
Would you like to send this article to a friend?
Go todefying expert predictions.
Would you like to send this article to a friend?
News -
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